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Ψ Featured Ψ P.A.T.S Version 2.0 - Discussion Thread

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    Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Cadet Citizen III

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    Now this made sense.

    Still, I probably am part of the few that do not acknowledge chronokinesis as many seem to think of it.First their definition of chronokinesis would just be time manipulation, I still don't get why the need to 'turn' it into a 'kinetic skill'.Second they think that it would allow them to mess with time, probably even travel backwards or forwards in time, which so far has been proved as impossible for humans or anything with considerable mass.For now.
     
  2.  
    thepsycicwidget
    Blah

    thepsycicwidget Cadet Citizen II

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    Luck manipulation is considered a psionic skill, microPK, which isn't really a 'kinetic' skill either. While microPK does not really involve the "kinetic" definition you're looking for, it is no doubt accepted among psions, and chronokinesis actually DOES involve movement (moreso than the recognized microPK). Chronokinesis would be considered a kinetic skill because you can move the path of timelines in various ways, as well as 'bending' the flow of time via time jumps (similar to astral travel but a practitioner jumps forward or backward in time within their body). And, also, it has not been proven impossible to mess with time nor to travel backwards in time. There is very little we can prove impossible. Most all psychokinetic abilities are considered impossible by the considerable mass.
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    And also, we already know of particles that can move backwards in times in quantum physics and electro-dynamics called advanced waves. They are only in small quantity, so they are usually disregarded, but they were predicted by James Clerk Maxwell. The waves aren't measureable as far as we're concerned, but they are still created, and are thought to be able to be utilized in order to convey small messages to the past if we were to discover how to keep these waves in tact. That shows that it is possible for certain energy to travel backwards in time. In an esoteric viewpoint, that certainly doesn't rule out the viewpoint that the soul could travel backwards in time. If anything, it supports the possibility by showing that particles can, in fact, go backwards in time.
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    And the fact alone that this community recognizes both astral travel and precognition should be enough for chronokinesis to be recognized, as combining the two abilities could mean living through and gathering memories from the future, which would essentially enable a practitioner to go through the future twice, resulting in changes to the timeline in the end (if the practitioner decides to make a different decision the second time the future comes around). Plus, many casual forms of manifestation have the potential of correlating with chronokinesis if the manipulation of events and memories are within a different timeline, meaning that a practitioner can manifest a future based on a very specific memory from one of the infinite possibilities for the future. The idea of chronokinesis is to bend and overlap different timelines, or possibly even the overlap the same timeline onto itself (time jump), or create a new timeline all together (paradoxes). Through chronokinesis, this manipulation and movement of timelines can take out the middle-men of tools and rituals and be practiced directly through a connection between the practitioner and time. It's something many of us have already been doing in small, indirect circumstances, as I described with manifestation, precognition, and the implications of astral travel. Chronokinesis just takes that to another level.
     
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    Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Cadet Citizen III

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    Luck manipulation is considered psionic?Never heard of that one before, always put it into the 'general energy work' folder.
    'MicroPK' does not envolve kinesis but still uses PsychoKinesis in it's name, so something isn't right with the name or the definition, because when you use a word you will be using it's meaning and kinesis is related to movement.

    By the way, I didn't say that messing with time was impossible, I said:
    Read my own quote above.

    Chronokinesis is considered a bound skill-something apparently hard to achieve if the description is right-and anything hard to do seems to be in between of recognized and unrecognized, so I wouldn't agree with your comparison of astral travel and precognition to something 'hard to achieve' as chronokinesis.
     
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    thepsycicwidget
    Blah

    thepsycicwidget Cadet Citizen II

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    But how has it been proved impossible (for considerable masses)?
     
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    Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Cadet Citizen III

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    Have you seen any scientific article-or some kind of proof-saying that humans or anything "with considerable mass" was able to be send back in time or go to the future?Because I haven't.

    So until it can be done it cannot be considered possible, for now.
     
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    ShadowRain

    ShadowRain Cadet Citizen I

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    To be fair, there is plenty that current scientific thought claims is impossible that magick practitioners do all the time.
     
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    Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Cadet Citizen III

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    You mean there is plenty that they talk they do all the time.
    As many as it can be, time manipulation so far seems to not be one of them.
     
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    ShadowRain

    ShadowRain Cadet Citizen I

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    Point being, that same argument can be made against the majority of the abilities in the PATS list. Singling out *only* time manipulation because it's not scientifically verified makes no sense.
     
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  9.  
    Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Cadet Citizen III

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    You can't bring the other skills in this discussion because the subject being singled out until now is time manipulation, a.k.a. chronokinesis, and each and every skill has it's own 'range of plausibility'.

    And I didn't deny time manipulation in general, just that:
    As far as I know no one-scientists or others-succeded with this ^ so of course I won't believe in someone's words about it.
     
  10.  
    thepsycicwidget
    Blah

    thepsycicwidget Cadet Citizen II

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    What I don't understand is why you're automatically assuming that time manipulation requires sending any considerable mass back in time or into the future at all? You haven't considered the possibility that souls are traveling, not physical bodies. By this logic, you could go back in time or forward in time, simply using your body in any point in time as a vessel. If you were to go back in time, your body would be in the same state it was during that time.
    If you manipulate time, the physical world is obviously going to be affected. If time slows down, so do the objects around. If time speeds up, so do the objects. So wouldn't it make sense that going forward in time, objects would continue on the normal paths of cause and effect, including your body? This same logic would be applied to going back in time. This isn't manipulating objects or teleporting. This is manipulating time. We can experience time because we have sentience, and consciousness. So when we manipulate time, we can travel through that path. The physical world is still going to react according to the rules of time. If you go back to a day where you were in overalls, filling your car with gas at a gas station: then you would be back in your overalls. Manipulating time will have effects, but most noticeably on people, animals, memories, psychics, divination, etc.
    This doesn't mean the ability is useless. It could mean that you get to take a test twice, try a new method of approach when you messed up talking to someone, or use it to avert danger in the future. It might not be anime-fun, but how much of our abilities live up to the expectations of cartoons? You don't throw a truck with telekinesis. If you're using chronokinesis and wanting to deliver a message (like one might think of using the ability for), then simply remember the message when you go back in time.
    There is no requirement in the reality of time manipulation that claims you have to manipulate physical objects and teleport them. It's not about manipulating bodies. It's about manipulating time.

    Edit: Time functions on personal levels as well as objective levels. Personal levels include travel of a specific person through time, while objective levels include manipulating time itself (rather than merely traveling through it). However, I am focusing on travel at the moment because that's what you're objecting to.
     
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    Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Cadet Citizen III

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    I might need to separate my answer into segments, but here it goes.

    1.Because if you aren't sending yourself physically to a certain point in time then you aren't manipulating time, just watching the past or future, as you cannot interact with either but only with their consequences.

    2.Slowing down or speeding up time isn't time manipulation, but the alteration of your own perception about time in general.It's a state of being similar to the flow state.

    3.Your own 'kind' of time manipulation is nothing more than a projection of your consciousness in order to re-watch the past or see the future.Your timeline might be affected by your future choices, but you yourself don't interact with time directly in any shape or form.
     
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    Anecdotal Myers
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    Anecdotal Myers Cadet Citizen II

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    Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Cadet Citizen III

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    Empty words still are empty if your meaning is hidden.(How is that for being a bit cryptic?)

    All of this discussion has nothing to do with being open minded, and on that note, a person can be open minded and still question the words of others.If you accept everything said-without judging-than you aren't being open minded, but a fool that believes in every lie.Do not take this as an insult because that isn't my aim, but the words necessary to express my beliefs can "sound" rude to others.
     
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    Anecdotal Myers
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    Anecdotal Myers Cadet Citizen II

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    What do you think about negentropy?
     
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    Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Cadet Citizen III

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    I can't have an opinion before I research more about it.
     
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    thepsycicwidget
    Blah

    thepsycicwidget Cadet Citizen II

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    1. What do you mean just watching the future or past? We’re using our bodies as vessels right now, too. If you jump into the past or the future, that’s it. If you go to the past, you’re back in the past. Yes, you can interact with both. If you go in the past, that’s your present now.

    2. I know it isn’t, though it comes up a lot in this topic, and I was hoping to get a more mundane occurrence so that you could understand where I’m coming from. It wasn’t meant to be esoteric. I wanted a relatable, recognized, mundane time-related activity that I could use to support what I was saying.

    3. I still don’t understand the whole watching thing. It’s not like you get a vision of the past and snap back to the present. If you go back to the past, you stay there. If you go into the future, you stay there. You can manipulate time directly, like I stated in my last paragraph, but we were discussing time travel, so I’m speaking on time travel for the time being. I clarified this in my last paragraph.
     
  17.  
    thepsycicwidget
    Blah

    thepsycicwidget Cadet Citizen II

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    Well, correction on number 2. I know it isn’t depending on your definition of time. It is no doubt related.
     

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