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Peer-Reviewed Journals on Psychic Phenomena

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  1.  
    Omiron
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    Omiron Third Elder of the Nation

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    For all those people who research of any kind seems to be anti-thesis to their being, and that if you don't spoon feed them information, then that information must not exist or is argument for invalidity. I must say, that in this age of information when any and all information can be found at your finger tips, there really is no excuse to why you can't be researching information on your own.

    For those that don't know. Peer-reviewed articles and journals are written by professionals in academia and then submitted for veracity and review by other professional individuals in said academia. This means that this information, much like new science information, can not just be submitted without going through the gamut of being sound and valid based on current understand of that area of knowledge. With that said. Here is but one site, with quite a nice list of peer-reviewed information that is downloadable, as well as links to where you can find more. Also it mentions the Parapsychological Association that furthers research and advances in this area of knowledge.

    http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

    Let it be mentioned that almost any kind of information can be easily researched with time put in. Simply using Google to find any combination of keywords, or even other scholarly databases that can be use to search for more specific information, can go a long way to finding information without the new to wait on, or depend on someone on an OEC to just hand you specific information.
     
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    newpsion123

    newpsion123 New Citizen

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    #2 newpsion123, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
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    Omiron
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    Omiron Third Elder of the Nation

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    Just as I said. You aren't interested in what's out there. You're only interested in specific things to pick apart. Nevermind when I said this is merely an example of peer-reviewed articles. Nevermind--and I already know you were very well capable of doing this--I said you can research with whatever parameter of keywords you'd like to use, for whatever subject. The thing is with peer-reviewed material, smarter men than yourself have taken a shot at it before these journals were published. So taking a shot at the very real, and widely known idea that more research must be done, accomplishes nothing.

    If it weren't that case that "more research must be done", psychic abilities would be at a very different place than they are in the academia community.

    What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? You don't care to do any research. You deride any information presented. You intentionally ask for sources so you can dismiss them. You completely ignore anecdotal evidence throughout history of it. You deride peer-reviewed journals as if they're just school essays some random person made up. You seem to equate not knowing much about a thing as that thing not existing, despite, if you're going to know even a little about something, you must acknowledge it's existence. You link a wikipedia as a response. And again refer you back to not knowing much as equating it's nonexistence. If there was no basis for psychic phenomena, people wouldn't waste their time researching and trying to understand it more.

    You smell of a troll masquerading as a person seeking knowledge. But I don't believe that for a moment. Take care while on this site. I've little patience for trolling. There's one thing to hold skepticism, and then there's intentionally acting in a way to create conflict and passive-aggressively attacking people that fall for your dupe.
     
  4.  
    newpsion123

    newpsion123 New Citizen

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    Yes I am that's why I'm here. I'm interested in what's out there, but just because I WANT it to be out there, it doesn't mean I'll abandon all rationality and just accept whatever is told to me.

    Pretty much yeah, that's generally the process that has to be taken to validate information, and generally the process taken by people who want to learn facts and truth.

    Duh, that's the whole reason that psychic abilities are nowhere relatively close to recognition by the scientific community, because all research is inconclusive and more needs to be done. Would you like them to just accept the idea as a fact without even looking into it first? Where would we be today if THAT was the case?

    Learn some things, engage in intelligent discussion, that kind of thing really.

    I just read a bunch of research papers though, I told you that in my last post.

    Not so much deride as actually read the material and form my own opinion on it, instead of just echoing back what I'm told like a parrot.

    I read through them first so that I'm relatively informed on the paper before deciding tp dismiss, as opposed to not reading it at all and mindlessly accepting it as fact :)

    [​IMG]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#Faulty_logic

    By the way, in case you didn't know, there are hundreds of valid citations on that page from reputable people in the scientific community, scroll down to the bottom and see for your self. Might want to check out this article to in regards the the above comment.

    Again, didn't deride it , simply stated that a paper that resulted in inconclusive evidence, stating that more research should be done isn't anything close to verifying something's existence. Otherwise there would be a lot of wacko theories accepted into mainstream science, and that wouldn't be so good for humanity. Just so you know I applaud and respect those men for actually going out there and trying to prove such a thing instead of sitting in an echo chamber with a close minded point of view. Those are men that are actually interested in learning.

    Care to show me where I said that? Also care to show me what we DO know about psionics because I don't really see anything other than anecdotal evidence, which any reasonable person would never even consider accepting as fact.



    You probably should have read that article, there was some really good material in there. I'd like to show you my favourite part, if I may, "The ideas of psi (precognition, psychokinesis and telepathy) violate well-established laws of physics.[166] Psychokinesis violates the inverse-square law, the second law of thermodynamics, and the conservation of momentum.[167][168] There is no known mechanism for psi.[169]" Check out the sources if you think this is unreliable info from sketchy sources. It's also quite ironic you'd ridicule wikipedia as a response, but you believe that anecdotal evidence, even that from centuries ago, IS reliable.


    That's a code red logical fallacy alert right there. Besides, the research being done isn't to try and understand it more, it's to try and prove if it is real or not. Scientists have studied things like Phrenology, the shape of the Earth and more stuff like that, all of which was debunked. You assume that research is done to understand something, instead of to validate it as the truth.

    I sincerely apologize if I come off that way, I have been told before that my delivery can upset a lot of people. I'll try to be as polite as I can.

    I'm simply coming at this from a logical perspective, and a logical person does not believe in something without first investigating it first. That's why I'm here, there are many of you that claim to be able to do things, there are many articles on this site to read, this seems like the best place to be for what I'm trying to do. If I come off as a troll I'm sorry, I try not to be. Aside from the one meme I don't think I've done anything too silly. I'm just trying to be rational about this. I don't understand why my refusal to accept something without valid evidence upsets you so much
     
    #4 newpsion123, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
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    Hule
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    It's weird to see a forum bringing up real scientific studies and peer-reviewed journals, kudos for that Omiron. Now, where to start...

    "Read a couple from each section, none of them concluded anything except for "more research must be done" - Welcome to science, nobody in the academia is as stupid to claim that one experiment, principally in human sciences, proves anything.

    "Duh, that's the whole reason that psychic abilities are nowhere relatively close to recognition by the scientific community, because all research is inconclusive and more needs to be done" - Nowhere is such a harsh word... Parapsychologists have founded many applications for psychic abilities and many of them recognize them well; and then again, in science, there's ALWAYS more that needs to be done.

    "You completely ignore anecdotal evidence throughout history of it. *and followed Archer gif* "- Did you know that all sciences all found on anecdotical research? Mostly human sciences of course but there's so much richness of information when you put up all the cases together and began to find patterns; those patterns are your hints, your hypothesis, only fools would dismiss clusters on anecdotical reports.

    "You probably should have read that article, there was some really good material in there. I'd like to show you my favourite part, if I may, "The ideas of psi (precognition, psychokinesis and telepathy) violate well-established laws of physics.[166] Psychokinesis violates the inverse-square law, the second law of thermodynamics, and the conservation of momentum.[167][168] There is no known mechanism for psi.[169]" Check out the sources if you think this is unreliable info from sketchy sources. It's also quite ironic you'd ridicule wikipedia as a response, but you believe that anecdotal evidence, even that from centuries ago, IS reliable." - Ugh... Wikipedia... By the way, you should join the Guerrilla Skepticism, it's an editing team "improving" wikipedia pages modifying bios and concepts related to parapsychology. Like a collective encyclopedia would have more weight than a peer-reviewed journal. If you're gonna cite something at least make the effort to go to the references and put one of them, not the first link you get in google. By the way, do you know what other science violate the laws of physics? Quantum physics!
     
  6.  
    newpsion123

    newpsion123 New Citizen

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    Oh boy. Here we go.

    Omiron apparently is. I read the vast majority of those papers last night, believe me. All of them were inconclusive. They took no strides towards proving anything at all. Other experiments conducted in other areas of science, while not outright proving something, at least take steps forward in providing a basis that these things might exist. These papers didn't even do that.

    It's spelled anecdotal. And yes, anecdotal evidence can be reason for one to begin researching, that's fair enough. What it doesn't suffice to, is being used as hard evidence. There is no backing behind it at all, at the end of the day they're just stories, which anyone can tell. Sure, they provide a reason for someone to pursue proof of whatever it is they claim, but that's as far as they go.

    Wikipedia is easier for me to link, because i have severe doubts that anybody would read a book or a paper were i to present it.

    Not quite, but nice try, By the way, even if that was the case, why then are quantum mechanics widely accepted and taught in higher education while psionics isnt? That's a funny thing to think about isnt it. Theyre both equally outlandish, but one is ridiculed by science and the other is at the forefront of modern physics. Strange, I think. Maybe you should read into this. Again, I repeat to you, I am very open minded, Im just not biased.
     
  7.  
    Hule
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    So the debate begin (and probably won't ever end, but lets play).

    I love how people use logic arguments as confirmation bias and fallacies but began statements with "I read the vast majority of those papers last night, believe me". NO YOU FUCKING DIDN'T! You want a meta-analysis about PK effect in over 360 experiments? Here you go: http://deanradin.com/evidence/Bosch2006RNGMetaFull.pdf.

    You people represent what's wrong with the "skeptic" community! You said it's illogical, incoherent and obnoxious but all you rely is damned wikipedia XD Cite a book god damn it! Even there are many skeptical peer-reviewed journals with great apportations by them, but you will just not reference any because you're afraid to read or past over the first page in google.

    Sorry for the spelling, english is not my native :) And I didn't mentioned anecdotal evidence as a "hard evidence", but again, clusters of them may show patterns of what may be or no be happening.

    I would totally search for anyone citing good bibliography, though I understand no all of them are available online. Besides, that's why cites are used for: Name of person (YEAR). The title of whatever you are referencing. pp.X. Use the page where you want me to look at and I don't need to read the whole book. See? not that difficult.

    I've not only tried but succeeded. Quantum entanglement, for example, violates Newton's third law. Why you say? Again, because people like you. Too sluggish to search for the information, too common to settle what the media and academia dictate you and too afraid to explore what may overwhelm you.
     
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    Michael Chaney
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    http://noetic.org/research/psi-research

    http://www.noetic.org/selected-publications

    As much as scientists may wish they are not the only professional society. People who do psychic work for a living are a group of people. This means they are a professional society. No the problem with scientists is that they are becoming irrelevant except in specialized areas. Anyone can find stuff like on arxiv.org and learned from Khan Academy. Real science and entrepreneurial work can be done with or without scientists.

    I am partial to psionics being a supersystem chemistry phenomena but I am still learning stuff as I go.
     
  9.  
    Hule
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    Being a group of people don't make them professional but I get your point and I appreciate it. On the other hand when you're saying "scientists" I think you may be referring to "academics"; the Academia, the group of scientific societies which determine what should or should not be studied in a school or college, are following an scholastic model, that is "it's this way because it's been said before". It's the dark ages thought all over again XD

    Science and scientists reach for the data, the evidence and theories that explain this. Parapsychology is a science, but it needs more researchers, and it needs funding. By the way, if anyone is REALLY interested in parapsychology as a science (it's not psionics) and want to learn what it's been done in the field. MP me, and I'll pass you some information (there is good and free courses out there, you just need to learn where to look).
     
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    ThroeS
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    Bottom line is: psionics needs to be researched more.

    Isn't that what we're all here for? One way or another.
     
  11.  
    Omiron
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    Omiron Third Elder of the Nation

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    I'm not going to get into a quote for quote war here.

    @newpsion123 I'm just simply going to say you misrepresent my stance in this case. I didn't link that to say any or all of those journals on their own are conclusive evidence of psi. I simply linked them to show you there is a wealth of information out there on the phenomena, and because you refused to actually do the very easy thing I did, by go find some articles and research, I gave an example of peer-reviewed journals. The whole point of peer-reviewed journals is they are held to higher standard than someone just going and writing anything they want on the phenomena.

    @Hule and @newpsion123 I'm not sure why there is such a disconnect in my statement. I am NOT saying anecdotal evidence is confirmation of anything. I am saying the entirety of psi phenomena, as documented AND passed down through anecdotal recounting suggests that the phenomena has been happening long enough, and proliferate enough, that it exists to many many people. It's not understood well, at all, but that isn't the same as it not existing. Everyone from the random person just trying to live their life to scientists have experienced it in some way. To say it doesn't exist is pretty naive and seems a bit trollish.

    @newpsion123 Maybe your claim got lost somewhere from the chat yesterday through all this posting. My understanding was that you were of the stance that you were skeptic of its existence at all. If that's not the case my bad. If it is, then my previous statements stand. And I don't believe for one moment, like @Hule called you out, that you even read a couple from all those categories, at least not at the time of your original response. You talk of wanting logic and reason, but it's irrational to pretend it doesn't exist at all when presented with all the information there is out there. Information you refuse to actually put in some work to research yourself and call on people to present specific sources, for the sole purpose of finding something wrong to refute. Not to be confused with a real interest in the information presented.You know exactly what you are doing man, and I'm not interested in your games no matter how much you protest that it's benign attempt to educate.
     
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  12.  
    Omiron
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    Omiron Third Elder of the Nation

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    What do you think professional actually means in this case? Because someone who does it for a living, by definition, is a professional.

    Also, people are too caught up in the idea of psionics as a science. Could very well be an art and remain that way. Much as a person can paint a masterpiece, they'd never recreate that masterpiece by hand in exactly the same way. People just assume that psionics will fit in the work the same way, every time, with no deviation, category. But when you bring the human condition into it, things change. Athletes don't perform the same every time. A marksman doesn't perform the same every time. Someone engaging in professional math competition doesn't perform same everytime. You get my meaning. Please extrapolate the spirit of the message rather than the literal words used to try and pick apart those specific examples rather than what you know I'm trying to get at.
     
  13.  
    Hule
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    @Omiron I understand professional as "relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill", and not many psychics have this qualities. Nonetheless, it's true that the definition "does it for a living" is also one of professional, so I retract about that particular statement.

    I don't think psionics is a science, as you say, it's probably more a discipline, or an art; the same way sports are not science. Nonetheless, as athletes should be interested in the sciences behind their achievement and endeavours, psions would benefit of parapsychology, so I'm trying to defend that stance.

    I liked the forum teachings a long time ago, but nonetheless, there are a lot of techniques, data and answers in those parapsych journals that all this community may benefit from. Example of that are the procedures of OBE's or remote viewing, and that may provide more useful information that the one developed through chats. That's what I'm aiming with my joining here, I want to share that info to this nation. Maybe I can lit a flame that was lit in me to pursue this career and analyze the phenomena. I'm a psion too, I have a foot in both worlds and as I understand there's a lack of parapsychologists, there's also a lack of information in psioncs and psions who can provide good data in a research. Few parapsychologists think this are abilities, the most of them would think they're talents; but if they're abilities as we all here suppose, they can be developed; I will try to help with that, from a scientific perspective rather than a spiritual, oriental or energetic one.
     
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    Thoughtful
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    Thoughtful Middle Class Citizen

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    newpsion123

    newpsion123 New Citizen

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    You'd think so, but so far all that i've seen here is an echo chamber where nobody questions anything, and people reinforce views that have no backing to them whatsoever.

    "You have to do it yourself to see" is what I get most of the time

    Nice argument there bud. "no you didnt". Got me on that one. Also, read the conclusion of that paper that you picked out probably cause its the longest and not because you have read it and know that it's a good paper. "The statistical significance of the overall database provides no directive as to whether the phenomenon is genuine. The differencebetween the two statistical models used (FEM and REM) and the dependency of the results on three very large studies demonstrate the difficulties regarding these data. If the striking heterogeneity and the small-study effect are taken into account, one must ask" Very conclusive indeed, hmm?

    Why am I not shocked that you didnt pay attention to what I linked. I'm not trying to prove magic powers, i linked you wikipedia articles to show you that the very definition of what you're telling me contradicts the point that you're trying to make. If somebody ever writes a book on the definition of a single fallacy, you let me know big man.

    Ill let you look for the irony in that statement.

    These people dont perform the same but they do perform at some level at least full stop. Code red apples and oranges fallacy weewoo weewoo

    Yeah, thats what they did, and they said that they found nothing conclusive. Men smarter than you and me found nothing conclusive. Not sure what youre trying to get out.

    Koreans believe in fan death, indigenous peoples believe in different myths, stories get passed down and altered all the time. If you think that I'm naive for not believing in psionics you might want to check yourself into broadmoor mate. 50 years ago you would have been dragged there but unfortunately we live in different times.

    At the end of the day folks, I've refuted all of your points, and all you have done is say "NO YOUR NOT RIGHT WE KNOW". Sorry I'm right you're wrong I wear boxers you wear thongs. Pretty much done with this place as i've found it devoid of any semblance of an intelligent human. With that I bid you farewell.

    <edited>

    My IQ is 179 so ya im basically smarter than all of you sorry to say it XD

    Anyway, I hope you all go out and try to tell somebody what you believe in so that you get institutionalized like the tards you are.

    Have fun, seeya.
     
    #15 newpsion123, Feb 5, 2016
    Grammar Edited by PN Staff: Feb 5, 2016
  16.  
    Omiron
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    Omiron Third Elder of the Nation

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    Just because no one said anything doesn't mean it is believed. Your statement about being institutionalized for believing in psionics is nothing more than a popularity fallacy. Doesn't make them right, only means they had the ability to imprison you for not thinking like they.

    You didn't refute all the points. You made rebuttals and with smug superiority assume you're right. That fine. At the end of the day I don't bother with trolls. You like to toss fallacies out there and try and tack them on responses and assume it makes you right. You're funny.

    That being said. Check how you speak to people. Just because you're a die-hard skeptic doesn't give your leave to insult people.

    It's cute you toss your IQ out there with the assured belief it's higher than everyone here.
     
  17.  
    Hule
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    We all got on high horses here, but hey, it's the internet right? We're all biased, sure, but then again, everyone deserves the right to believe whatever he wants, it's a free world.

    There's a lot going on in parapsychology, it has for more than 100 years now; you want hard evidence? Go read The Conscious Universe by Dean Radin, it's the best money you'll spent if you're trying to figure out what's reality by the data.

    I'll began to do what I was meant to do when I came here, but now I remember why I left the last time...
     
  18.  
    Hule
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    Such eloquence XD

    I will be posting with titles beginning with "Parapsychology: ...", probably, and more usually as that's the goal, under Guides and Manual, but sometimes in other forums (as I think the mods would move them anyway). I've uploaded already one if you might want to check it.
     
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    Zerachiel
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    IQ doesn't really tell you how smart you are, especially since it leaves out quite a lot. IQ tests are just a way for people to think themselves smart cause a high number said so disregarding the fact it's lacking in a lot of areas.
     
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    FallenZero
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    only nerds who need confirmation of their mental prowess would need to know thier IQ lol
     

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